Tom Roebuck is discussing the art of winning high balls. There is the way you track the ball with your eyes as well as the dedicated gym programme he is given at Sale Sharks to improve his explosive jumping power.
Then there are all the conversations he will have around the Sale training ground with George Ford so that Roebuck, who starts his first England Test against Wales on Saturday, will recognise the subtlest of cues that the fly-half is about to launch a high bomb. Yet for the technical and physical work the 6ft 2in winger spends on honing these fine details, winning a high ball is fundamentally a mental test.