When it comes to discussing Scotland's starting XI for next week's Euro 2020 showdown with England, Steve Clarke and assistant John Carver know what not to do.
They were part of Ruud Gullit's backroom team at Newcastle United in 1999 when, in the manager's office, the Dutchman told them he was ready to bench Alan Shearer and Duncan Ferguson for the Tyne-Wear derby.
'It would be like Steve dropping Andy Robertson and Kieran Tierney!' laughs the Englishman now known as 'Jock Carver' around the Northumberland golf club in which we meet.