Loris Karius has no real grasp of the last time he played a first-team match.
He is shaking his head and bending his lip as he is told it was about 21 months ago. 'Probably longer?' he ventures. 'It's been a while. It's not been easy.'
And the reason? One night in Kyiv in the Champions League final of 2018 was supposed to mark the high tide of the goalkeeper's rise.
Instead, after his two mistakes led to Real Madrid goals in a 3-1 defeat for Liverpool, it precipitated the fall.