TOM ALLEN: Go through and once Coach DeBord had let me know that he was considering this, now you put some feelers out with him and different individuals, you always have a short list of guys that you have ready to go because you never know how things may go in the future. It's kind of that way for all positions.
But just an individual, I've known Kalen, when I first got into college coaching, my second stop was at Lambuth University, and he was at Sioux Falls at the time as the head coach, and we were both at the NAIA level, and he was -- they were basically the ones winning all the games and winning all the championships in our division there and had a lot of respect for him from a distance and got to know him through that process, and then just throughout the years, been able to stay in touch with him and had guys that worked with him.